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sfwc
Member since Jun-19-03
Sep-09-03, 04:47 PM (EST)
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"Sierpinski gasket"
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-03 AT 12:41 PM (EST)
 
At www.cut-the-knot.org/ctk/Sierpinski.shtml it'says:

Being a uniform limit of curves (for it's defined by an L-System), the Sierpinski gasket is known to be the image of a continuous map from <0,1>. Does anyone know how to define such a curve explicitly?

Since the sierpinski gasket is fractal, such a function could only (as far as I know) be defined as a limit. But for a suitable L-system, it can be defined just as the limit of that system. First, i will outline a suitable L-system:

A segment is mapped to three segments as in fig.1 of the attachment.
They are oriented as demonstrated by fig.2 of the attachment, which shows the second iteration. Fig. 3 is just to give a suggestion of how this system becomes the sierpinski gasket, by showing a later iteration.

After n iterations, you have a curve C(n) of finite length. Let f_n be the natural function from <0, 1> onto C(n). Let f(x) be the limit as n tends to infinity of f_n(x). It is evident that f is defined on the interval <0, 1> and that the image of f is the sierpinski gasket.

Of course, this is probably just what was meant by "Being a uniform limit of curves (for it's defined by an L-System), the Sierpinski gasket is known to be the image of a continuous map from <0,1>", but I can't see how it can be done any more explicitly than that. What sort of a definition are you after?

Thankyou

sfwc
<><

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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
Sierpinski gasket sfwc Sep-09-03 TOP
  RE: Sierpinski gasket alexb Sep-09-03 1
     RE: Sierpinski gasket sfwc Sep-10-03 2
         RE: Sierpinski gasket alexb Sep-12-03 3
             RE: Sierpinski gasket sfwc Sep-14-03 4
                 RE: Sierpinski gasket alexb Sep-14-03 5
                     RE: Sierpinski gasket sfwc Sep-15-03 6

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alexb
Charter Member
1072 posts
Sep-09-03, 04:53 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Sierpinski gasket"
In response to message #0
 
   >... but I can't see how it can be
>done any more explicitly than that. What sort of a
>definition are you after?
>

Long, long ago I got a message from a Russian mathematician by the name of Sergey Markelov, if the memory serves. He defined the function in some low base number system, 3 or 4. The message got lost together with a computer of mine that was hit by a surge. It looked like

f(a) = b

where the digits of b have been defined in terms of the digits of a, piece wise.


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sfwc
Member since Jun-19-03
Sep-10-03, 12:48 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Sierpinski gasket"
In response to message #1
 
   Wow, that sounds like a fantastic definition. I've been racking my brains for something similar, and this is the best I could come up with:

First I'll define it in terms of a game, so you can see what's going on. Later I'll do it more formally. Let x lie in the interval <0, 1> and let d_n(x) be the nth digit after the decimal point in the base 3 expansion of x. (note: I say a_n(1) is 2 for all n, and if x is a terminating fraction, I let you decide whether to represent it as such or with a tail of infinitely many 2s. So you could represent 0.1212 as 0.1212000000... or 0.121122222222.... I shall show that the value of the function is independant of the representation that you choose.)

Take three boxes, labelled 0, 1, and 2, and put 3 marbles, labelled u, v and w respectively, into those boxes. By v(i) I mean the value of the variable whose name is written on the marble in box i. Initially, u = v = w = 0. To put it another way, for all i v(i) = 0.

For each n in turn, starting with n = 1:

If d_n(x) = 0 then add 1/2^n to v(0) and swap the marbles in boxes 1 and 2.
If d_n(x) = 1 then add 1/2^n to v(1), but do not do any swapping
If d_n(x) = 2 then add 1/2^n to v(2) and swap the marbles in boxes 0 and 1.

When you have done this for all n, you will obtain values for u, v and w such that u + v + w = 1. Define f(x) to be the point with areal (barycentric) co-ordinates (u, v, w).

Handily, your definition of the sierpinski gasket in terms of areal co-ordinates makes it clear from the rules of the game that f(x) is always an element of the sierpinski gasket.

Now, for that demonstration I was promising you; that the representation of x that you choose is irrelevant. Let x be 0.(stuff)10000000... (the case 0.(stuff)200000000... is very similar). After playing the game up to the end of stuff, you step back and look at what you will add to the variables in the future. Well, you will add 1/2^n for some n to v(1), and then add all the remaining powers of two to v(0), merrily swapping the marbles in boxes 1 and 2 forever. But the sum of all the remaining powers of two is also 1/2^n. So you will add 1/2^n to both v(0) and v(1). The other way you could have represented x is as 0.(stuff)02222222... Stepping back and performing the calculation as before, you find that once more you will add 1/2^n to v(0) and v(1).

The above demonstration is enough to show that the function is continuous. Also, for any point of the sierpinski gasket, it is clear that there is a game which will lead to that point. So f has all the required properties.

It'seems odd to define a function in a way that means it takes infinite time to find it's value. Well, firstly, for any rational x the game player's behaviour will ultimately be periodic and an observer could calculate what the eventual values of u, v, and w would be within finite time. For irrational x, it is harder to justify. To escape this criticism, there are two alternatives:

1. Define f for only rational x initially. Any irrational x is a limit of a sequence of rationals and by continuity we may define f(x) as the limit point of the image of that sequence under f.

2. Observe that the same troubles are encountered with many functions where things dependant on the digits in some expansion of x are summed (without a rearrangement style game), but are just ignored, and so ignore this problem too (in the name of consistency).

Now for that more formal, equivalent definition. First, I'll get my notation straight. P{(u, v, w)} is the point with areal co-ordinates (u, v, w). ((a, b, c), (d, e, f), (g, h, i)) denotes the 3 by 3 matrix with first row a b c, second row d e f etc. Let Sum(r = a, b, c(r)) be the sum from r = a to b of c(r). Let the function Product be similarly defined. Since I am using matrix multiplication, I shall specify the order: c(b) furthest left then in order down to c(a) furthest right. For example, Product(t = 7, 10, A(t) + B(t)) is (A(10) + B(10))*(A(9) + B(9))*(A(8) + B(8))*(A(7) + B(7)). Define functions g and H as follows:

g(0) = (1, 0, 0)
g(1) = (0, 1, 0)
g(2) = (0, 0, 1)

H(0) = ((1/2, 0, 0), (0, 0, 1/2), (0, 1/2, 0))
H(1) = ((1/2, 0, 0), (0, 1/2, 0), (0, 0, 1/2))
H(2) = ((0, 1/2, 0), (1/2, 0, 0), (0, 0, 1/2))

Then:
P{..... + g(d_2(x)))*H(d_2(x)) + g(d_1(x)))*H(d_1(x))} = f(x)
to put it another way:

f(x) = P{Sum(r = 1, infinity, g(d_r(x)) * Product(s = 1, r, H(d_s(x))))}

Thankyou

sfwc
<><

PS The function f defined in this post, and that in my original post, are identical, despite the very different definitions.


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alexb
Charter Member
1072 posts
Sep-12-03, 10:45 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Sierpinski gasket"
In response to message #2
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-03 AT 11:11 PM (EST)
 
I'll need some leisure time to digest that.

>Wow, that sounds like a fantastic definition.

In fact I should apologize. Markelov wrote about the Hilbert area filling curve, not Sierpinski's. What you came up with is interesting regardless.

Check also this

https://www.cut-the-knot.org/Curriculum/Geometry/Peano.shtml#def

I found the following in

G. A. Edgar
Measure, Topology, and Fractal Geometry
Springer, 1995

(Of the existence of which I only found out after writing that column you referred to.) This from p. 110:

Alphabet E = { L, U, R }. E(w) is the set of infinite words written in E.

fL, fU, fR are the affine mappings from the standard iterated function system for which the Sierpinski gasket is a fixed point.

The question is to construct h: E(w) -> S, where S is the Sierpinski gasket. h should be continuous and satisfy

h(Ls) = fL(h(s)), etc.

Let u, v be the coordinates in R such that v is at 60° to the horizontal u. Then thinking of u and v as binary, h is defined on a letter-by-digit basis as






letterdigit of udigit of v
L00
U01
R10

P.S. One question: what is P{} in your notations?


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sfwc
Member since Jun-19-03
Sep-14-03, 06:47 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Sierpinski gasket"
In response to message #3
 
   >h should be continuous
Under what distance function? Is it'something like the reciprocal of the number of letters before there is a mismatch between the two strings? (I think this works with the function you gave)

Is there a standard distance function on such sets?

>P.S. One question: what is P{} in your notations?
I quote:
"P{(u, v, w)} is the point with areal co-ordinates (u, v, w),"
However, this is buried in the middle of a long paragraph.

Thankyou

sfwc
<><


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alexb
Charter Member
1072 posts
Sep-14-03, 06:53 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Sierpinski gasket"
In response to message #4
 
   >>h should be continuous
>Under what distance function? Is it'something like the
>reciprocal of the number of letters before there is a
>mismatch between the two strings? (I think this works with
>the function you gave)

Almost. It's 2-k, where k is what you think it is.

>Is there a standard distance function on such sets?

I've been actually typing from the book. Edgar starts with a list of desired properties the function should possess to be useful. Next he defines it, after which he defines the metric and shows continuity.

>>P.S. One question: what is P{} in your notations?
>I quote:
>"P{(u, v, w)} is the point with areal co-ordinates (u, v,
>w),"
>However, this is buried in the middle of a long paragraph.

Thank you. I missed that.

A question: would you mind if I used your real name for attribution?


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sfwc
Member since Jun-19-03
Sep-15-03, 04:48 PM (EST)
Click to EMail sfwc Click to send private message to sfwc Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
6. "RE: Sierpinski gasket"
In response to message #5
 
   >A question: would you mind if I used your real name for
>attribution?
No, that's absolutely fine.

Thankyou

sfwc (Nathan Bowler)
<><


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