CTK Exchange
Front Page
Movie shortcuts
Personal info
Awards
Reciprocal links
Terms of use
Privacy Policy

Interactive Activities

Cut The Knot!
MSET99 Talk
Games & Puzzles
Arithmetic/Algebra
Geometry
Probability
Eye Opener
Analog Gadgets
Inventor's Paradox
Did you know?...
Proofs
Math as Language
Things Impossible
My Logo
Math Poll
Other Math sit's
Guest book
News sit's

Recommend this site

Manifesto: what CTK is about Search CTK Buying a book is a commitment to learning Table of content Products to download and subscription Things you can find on CTK Chronology of updates Email to Cut The Knot Recommend this page

CTK Exchange

Subject: "Pythagorean triple generator"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy     Email this topic to a friend    
Conferences The CTK Exchange This and that Topic #758
Reading Topic #758
Neil_Parker
Member since Apr-13-07
Apr-13-07, 09:53 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Neil_Parker Click to send private message to Neil_Parker Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
"Pythagorean triple generator"
 
   *ALL* pythagorean triples are derivatives of t, (t^2+1)/2 and (t^2-1)/2. In other words given any triple, a corresponding rational t value may be found which generates a rational triple with sides in proportion to the given. So I can't understand the continual use of 2 parameters m,n or r,s when just one t will do. Send me your trip and I will send you back the corresponding t value! Neil. PS I have an elegant proof of this which won't quite fit this margin!!

Neil


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
alexb
Charter Member
1993 posts
Apr-13-07, 10:22 PM (EST)
Click to EMail alexb Click to send private message to alexb Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: Pythagorean triple generator"
In response to message #0
 
   For one, the rationals are a two-parameter family, give or take. Also, was not the integers a G-d's creation while the rest (the rationals in particular) are man-made?


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Neil_Parker
Member since Apr-13-07
Apr-29-07, 08:16 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Neil_Parker Click to send private message to Neil_Parker Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: Pythagorean triple generator"
In response to message #1
 
   >For one, the rationals are a two-parameter family, give or
>take. Also, was not the integers a G-d's creation while the
>rest (the rationals in particular) are man-made?

Ah yes! And therein lies the essence. For if in the Platonic sequence {(t^2-1)/2; t ; (t^2+1)/2} we replace t with rational number m/n (m>n), we will arrive at the two parameter formula with m and n. But this is subtly different from saying the Platonic sequence is a special case of the m,n formula with n=1. As if Platonic triplets were a subset of 'm/n' triplets when quite the contrary is true. Neil

Neil


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Snow Leopard
guest
Apr-16-07, 07:13 AM (EST)
 
2. "RE: Pythagorean triple generator"
In response to message #0
 
   In fact, all Pythagorean triples are not derivatives as you describe. For the famous {4,3,5}, {12,5,13}, {24,7,25}, etc., your equation holds, if t = {3, 5, 7, 9 ... 2x+1}, but what about {15,8,17}, or {21,20,29}?

As for the reason why there are two parameters, the reason is as follows.

Pythagorean triples are (or may be) organized into m groups, each with n triples. As such, m and n simply designate placeholders for any given triple. Within each group, then, only one parameter is required; it is just that there are an infinite number (m) of groups.

The first few groups look like this:
----m = 1----m = 2 -----m = 3 ----m = 4------
n=1<2, 0, 2><8, 0, 8><18, 0, 18><32, 0, 32>
n=2<4, 3, 5><12, 5, 13><24, 7, 25><40, 9, 41>
n=3<6, 8, 10><16, 12, 20><30, 16, 34><48, 20, 52>
n=4<8, 15, 17><20, 21, 29><36, 27, 45><56, 33, 65>

You may notice that the first term in each group is 2m^2, and that this is also the difference of c - b.

Meanwhile, the first term, a, in each triple is 2m(n+1).

The second term, b, is a little more complicated. In each case, it is simply the sum of odd numbers, but the sum leaves off some odd numbers (the first non-zero term in each group shows you where the odd numbers "start" from). You might note that in m=1, b=n^2-1. However, this is simply fortuitous, as the other groups do not reflect this pattern.

Rather, for m = 1, b = n^2 - 1
for m = 2, b = (n+1)^2 - 4
for m = 3, b = (n+2)^ - 9

or, in general: b = (n + m - 1)^2 - m^2

Lastly, c = b + 2m^2

So, this is why there are two parameters. If you decide just to look at, say, m = 2, then you get:

a = 4(n+1)
b = (n+1)^2 - 4
c = (n+1)^2 + 4

n=1 --> a = 8, b = 0, c = 8
n=2 --> a = 12, b = 5, c = 13

etc

Hope this helps.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Neil_Parker
Member since Apr-13-07
Apr-27-07, 04:16 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Neil_Parker Click to send private message to Neil_Parker Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: Pythagorean triple generator"
In response to message #2
 
   Re triple {15,8,17}. t-value is 4. (t^2+1)/2 is 17/2 and (t^2-1)/2 is 15/2 yielding {15/2;4;17/2} which obviously scales up to {15;8;17}. Re triple {20;21;29} t-value is 2.5. Then (t^2+1)/2 is 29/8 and (t^2-1)/2 is 21/8 yielding trip {20/8;21/8;29/8} which equally obviously scales up to {20;21;29}. So I repeat: send me your trip and I will send you your t-value. ciao Neil.

Neil


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Conferences | Forums | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

You may be curious to have a look at the old CTK Exchange archive.
Please do not post there.

Copyright © 1996-2018 Alexander Bogomolny

Search:
Keywords:

Google
Web CTK