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CTK Exchange
Scott

guest
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Oct-03-07, 00:01 AM (EST) |
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"Proof #12 of irrationality of square roots"
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I greatly enjoyed getting caught-up on the proofs of the irrationality of the roots of integers... However, I am troubled by Proof 12. The argument seems to imply more than is really true -- that the product of two finite decimal expansions cannot be an integer, without using in any critical way that we are working with squares (or higher integer powers). Consider, for example, the product (2.5) x (0.4) The suggestion that one handle infinitely repeating decimals by changing the base of the decimal expansions I think is also perhaps disingenuous, in that, in the interesting cases, in essence it reduces to a clumsy way of writing the rational numbers as ordinary fractions. This line of thinking also seems to suggest that the ability of the squaring of certain infinite non-repeating decimals to "cancel out" all the decimal places is some kind of miracle. Then again, perhaps it really is! Thoughts? Best regards, Scott.
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mr_homm
Member since May-22-05
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Oct-03-07, 10:17 AM (EST) |
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2. "RE: Proof #12 of irrationality of square roots"
In response to message #1
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The above posts piqued my interest in the various proofs that sqrt(2) is irrational. After thinking them over, I have found a new one which does not seem to be equivalent to any of those on the list. It is less "elementary" than most of those, but still rather brief. In Z/3, 0^2=0, 1^2 = 1 and 2^2 = 1, so there is no element whose square is 2. Now suppose sqrt(2) is rational. Then p/q maps to a = (p mod 3) / (q mod 3). But since reduction mod 3 respects all the arithmetic operations, a^2 = 2 in Z/3, a contradiction. From this it is easy to see that n^(1/m) is irrational if there exists at least one prime p such that n is not a perfect mth power in Z/p. This way of proving things is perhaps not as "pretty" as some of the more elementary methods, but makes a nice connection to modular arithmetic, I think. --Stuart Anderson |
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mr_homm
Member since May-22-05
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Oct-03-07, 12:53 PM (EST) |
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4. "RE: Proof #12 of irrationality of square roots"
In response to message #3
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I agree that it is not obvious how to find a suitable p. For p=7, 3^2 = 2, so 2 is a square in Z/7, for instance, and the proof would not work there. However, for prime p, exactly half the nonzero elements of Z/p are squares, so there is a priori a 50% chance of success for each prime. It'should not be a long search, therefore, but still it would be much nicer if some pattern were available to guide one. It is also true that for any exponent m, the elements of the form a^m form a multiplicitave subgroup in Z/p, so there cannot be more than (p-1)/2 such elements. Again, one has an a priori chance of at least 50% that a given prime p will work. At the moment, I cannot see a general method for finding primes that work. I will give it'some more thought. --Stuart Anderson |
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