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May-02-04, 08:50 AM (EST) |
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"Need help/ Basic differentiation"
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I am currently teaching myself basic calculus. The book I am using, Calculus Made Easy, by Silvanus Thompson, differentiates the following problem in a completely different way than I had expected: y = x -2 Because ( dy / dx ) = nxn-1, I understand that the derivative will be ( dy / dx ) = -2x But my problem lies in how you get to that derivative. Now I had expected the problem to be solved in the book in the following way: y + dy = ( x + dx )-2 y + dy = ( 1 / ( x2 + 2x(dx) + (dx)2)) y + dy = x-2 + 2x-1(dx) + (dx)-2 y + dy = x-2 + 2x-1(dx) - disregard (dx)-2 dy = 2x-1(dx) - remove the function ( dy / dx ) = 2x-1 But the Book solves it in a completely different way: y + dy = ( x + dx )-2 y + dy = x-2 ( 1 + ( x / dx ))-2 It then proceeds to expand the equation by the binomial theorem, ending up with the same answer. Why does Thompson do this? Is it not easier to do it the first way rather than the second? I cant understand the logic behind this. He gives no reason for doing it in this way.
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sfwc
Member since Jun-19-03
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May-03-04, 03:49 PM (EST) |
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1. "RE: Need help/ Basic diff"
In response to message #0
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As written, what you've sent seems to contain a mistake. But it is hard to tell because the way you have written it is so ambiguous. From thwe context, you seem to be using powers, and you may be unaware of the standard notation for this in a text document. it is usual to write 'a to the power of b' as a^b. So for example x^2 = x*x. I shall use that notation throughout. >Because ( dy / dx ) = nxn-1, I understand that the >derivative will be > >( dy / dx ) = -2x. This seems odd. From what i can glean you are differentiating x^(-2), and the derivative of that is -2*x^(-3). But it'seems that this is just a typo. >y + dy = ( 1 / ( x2 + 2x(dx) + (dx)2)) > >y + dy = x-2 + 2x-1(dx) + (dx)-2 This is where the problem seems to lie. It appears that you are saying: y + dy = 1/(x^2 + 2*x*dx + (dx)^2) => y + dy = x^(-2) + 2*x^(-1) dx + (dx)^(-2) which does not follow. >( dy / dx ) = 2x-1 This is wrong... but it may be a typo again. >Why does Thompson do this? Is it not easier to do it the >first way rather than the second? I cant understand the >logic behind this. He gives no reason for doing it in this >way. There are, of course, many ways to differentiate x^(-2). You can do it as in the book, or represent it as (1/x)^2 and use the chain rule, or as e^((-2) * ln x) and use the chain rule again, or say: 0 = d/dx(1) = d/dx(x^2 * x^(-2)) = d/dx(x^2) * x^(-2) + x^2 * (d/dx(x^(-2))) = 2*x^(-1) + x^2 * d/dx(x^(-2)) and rearrange. I'm sure there are many other ways, and all have advantages and disadvantages (for example some of the above do not work for all values of x, but only for positive or for nonzero x). I'm sure Thompson had a good reason for doing it in the way he did: It illustrates a standard way to get derivatives, and shows the power of the binomial theorem. Thankyou sfwc <>< PS Part of your message got randomly turned into a smiley. This has happened to me before, too. The way to avoid it is to click the 'Check if you DO NOT wish to use emotion icons in your message' box at the bottom of the posting form. |
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alexb
Charter Member
1270 posts |
May-04-04, 10:37 AM (EST) |
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3. "RE: Need help/ Basic diff"
In response to message #1
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>As written, what you've sent seems to contain a mistake. But >it is hard to tell because the way you have written it is so >ambiguous. From thwe context, you seem to be using powers, >and you may be unaware of the standard notation for this in >a text document. it is usual to write 'a to the power of b' >as a^b. So for example x^2 = x*x. >I shall use that notation throughout. > >>Because ( dy / dx ) = nxn-1, I understand that the >>derivative will be >> >>( dy / dx ) = -2x. >This seems odd. From what i can glean you are >differentiating x^(-2), and the derivative of that is >-2*x^(-3). But it'seems that this is just a typo. > >>y + dy = ( 1 / ( x2 + 2x(dx) + (dx)2)) >> >>y + dy = x-2 + 2x-1(dx) + (dx)-2 > >This is where the problem seems to lie. It appears that you >are saying: >y + dy = 1/(x^2 + 2*x*dx + (dx)^2) >=> y + dy = x^(-2) + 2*x^(-1) dx + (dx)^(-2) >which does not follow. > >>( dy / dx ) = 2x-1 >This is wrong... but it may be a typo again. > >>Why does Thompson do this? Is it not easier to do it the >>first way rather than the second? I cant understand the >>logic behind this. He gives no reason for doing it in this >>way. >There are, of course, many ways to differentiate x^(-2). You >can do it as in the book, or represent it as (1/x)^2 and use >the chain rule, or as e^((-2) * ln x) and use the chain rule >again, or say: >0 = d/dx(1) = d/dx(x^2 * x^(-2)) >= d/dx(x^2) * x^(-2) + x^2 * (d/dx(x^(-2))) >= 2*x^(-1) + x^2 * d/dx(x^(-2)) >and rearrange. > >I'm sure there are many other ways, and all have advantages >and disadvantages (for example some of the above do not work >for all values of x, but only for positive or for nonzero >x). I'm sure Thompson had a good reason for doing it in the >way he did: It illustrates a standard way to get >derivatives, and shows the power of the binomial theorem. > >Thankyou > >sfwc ><>< > >PS Part of your message got randomly turned into a smiley. >This has happened to me before, too. The way to avoid it is >to click the 'Check if you DO NOT wish to use emotion icons >in your message' box at the bottom of the posting form.
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MPorter

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May-05-04, 07:49 PM (EST) |
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5. "RE: Need help/ Basic diff"
In response to message #3
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I understand the use of the chain rule as a good solution to the problem, for i can now see the falseness of my argument. However, in your usage of the chain rule, why do you use e, the perfect base, to solve the problem? What is the significance of e in calculus? And how do you apply it to solve differentials? Thanks |
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sfwc
Member since Jun-19-03
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May-06-04, 11:34 AM (EST) |
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6. "RE: Need help/ Basic diff"
In response to message #5
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The reason is that the function e^x has the remarkable property that d/dx(e^x) = e^x. e is unique and significant in calculus for that reason. This fact can be used to evaluate some particular derivatives: d/dx(a^x) = d/dx(e^(x*ln(a)) = ln(a) * e^(x*ln(a)) = ln(a)*a^x among others.It is also useful when you are looking for a solution to a differential equation in a function y. Say you want to solve dy/dx = a*y. Then you know a solution already: y = e^(a*x). This idea can be greatly generalised and I'm sure you'll see some useful applications later. Thankyou sfwc <>< |
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CSpeed0001
Member since Feb-19-03
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May-10-04, 09:36 PM (EST) |
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8. "RE: Need help/ Basic diff"
In response to message #5
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I'd like to start by saying that "Calculus Made Easy" was instrumental in my current success as a college student. That being said, I think that the other way of expressing derivatives is a little easier to work with sometimes. Now, if this is confusing, please disregard it. The idea is that you're finding the slope of the tangent line. So you're looking for the change in y (or f(x)) divided by the change in x. So the formula goes as follows: (d/dx)f(x)=/deltaxAFAIK he doesn't use that notation in that book. Calculus was such a hard class for me that I had to attack it from many different perspectives. That is why the book helped me, and that is why I've included another way here. I've yet so see a good proof of this, but this is the significance of base e that I've seen (BTW int means integral or antiderivative): int(1/x)=ln(x) This is apparently the way the natural log is defined. Since the natural log is log base e, this is also the way e is defined. So it would seem as though the reason e and ln are so important to calculus is because they wouldn't have a definition without it. On a personal note, I regard learning calculus as a turning point in my life. That was the first time I started regarding math as an art rather than a fairly simple series of algorithms. This feeling was ephasized when I learned about sequences and series, and then even more in differential equations. Either way, if it'seems kinda hard, that's normal. Almost everyone I know had a hard time learning calculus. I promise that you will be happy that you learned it though. If you can teach yourself basic calculus, please go further. I think you'll be very happy with what you learn. |
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