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lei you
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Mar-24-03, 10:02 AM (EST) |
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"1 + 11 + 111"
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hello, haven't been here for long okay, this question came out from an Maths comp paper. the original question is How many times does the digit 1 occur in the result of 1 11 111 ... 111 ... 111? (2002) well, can anyone give any hint as to what approach i may use in solving such a problem? the sum is this 1234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567 9012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345 6790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123 4567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901 2345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679 0123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456 7901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234 5679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012 3456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790 1234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567 9012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345 6790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123 4567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901 2345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679 0123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456 7901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234 5679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012 3456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790 1234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567 9012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345 6790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123 4567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901 2345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679 0123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456 7901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234 5679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012345679012 3456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790123456790 1234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567901234567 901234567901234567901234567901234567901012 224 digits are 1
but is there a pattern to it? there is only 2002 digits in the sum, but why? i can certainly see the repeated 123456790 but if i remve the trailing 1012 (2002-4)/10 this suggests that there should be 199.8 1s repeated the 2, which is 202 2s 199.8, being non integer, does that suggest that the pattern of the first 1998 digit is not what I thought it was? |
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SteveSchaefer
Member since Apr-2-02
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Mar-24-03, 12:22 PM (EST) |
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2. "RE: 1 + 11 + 111"
In response to message #0
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I've had a few moments to think about it and I've determined why the pattern 123456790 appears. You asked "can anyone give any hint as to what approach i may use in solving such a problem?" I tried a few different ways of approaching the problem. The one that worked was to break out the mechanics of the addition. That is, add the first column to get 2002. The final digit is 2, carry the 200. The next column is 200 + 2001 = 2201, so the next-to-last digit is 1, carry the 220. The next column is 220 + 2000 = 2220, so the digit in the result is 0, carry the 222. The rest of the digits are part of the pattern. Do as many more columns as you need to and look at how the carries change from column to column. How often does the carry amount change? Why does it change? How does that lead to repeated the sequence 123456790 in the sum? And finally, if you tried this for some value other than 2002 would you get the same type of repeated pattern? The same pattern (123456790)? |
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Jack Wert
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Mar-24-03, 10:21 PM (EST) |
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3. "RE: 1 + 11 + 111"
In response to message #2
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Not being a mathematician, I do not understand the problem. The way it was presented was confusing. It'seems you are to add many numbers, all consisting of 1's, but in that form? What does (2002) mean? The problem interests me, as I have always been fascinated by the old hand held calculator "check out" multiplication whereby you enter the amount 12345679, and then multiply it by any multiple of 9 and you will get an answer consisting of all digits that were the multiplier. For example, 12345679 * 63 = 777777777. Is there any connection between these two interesting appearances of the serial sequence of digits, including all but the number 8? Jack |
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Lei You
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Mar-25-03, 03:40 PM (EST) |
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6. "RE: 1 + 11 + 111"
In response to message #3
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Sorry for my mess in the original post, hehe we are after the sum of 1 + 11 + 111 + 1111 + 11111 + ... + 1111111....111111 in the last term, we have 2002 1s i.e we are after 2002 + 10 * (2001) + 10 ^ 2 * (2000) + 10 ^ 3 (1999) + ... + 10 ^ 2000 * 2 + 10 ^ 2001 and with the calculator prob I think it's because 12345679 x 9 is the magic number 111,111,111 if we see 12345679 as (1+11+111+1111+11111+...+111111111+1111111111) / 100 where (1+11+111+1111+11111+...+111111111+1111111111) = 1234567900 12345679 x 9 will = to 9 + 99 + 999 + 9999 + 99999 + ... + 9999999999 10 9s are 90, record 0, carry 9 9 9s + one 9 = 10 9s = 90, record 0, carry 9 8 9s + one 9 = 9 9s = 81 7 9s + one 8 = 8 9s - 1 = 71, carry 7 6 9s + one 7 = 7 9s - 2 = 61, carry 6 .... the resultant digits are all 1s, except the first two 00s why, i donno haha... ( also, it is interesting how 12 * 9 = 108 123 * 9 = 1107 1234 * 9 = 11106 12345 * 9 = 111105 123456 * 9 = 1111104 1234567 * 9 = 11111103 12345678 * 9 = 111111102 and to compensate the 2, we can plus one more 9 i.e time 9 by 12345679 instead of 12345679 to obtain 1111111 i know the sum of the product's digits has to be 9, since it's a product of 9, but, yeah,its just weird, how all the results begins with 111111s first column 9 1s + = 9 second column 9 2s + = 18 third column 9 3s + = 27 the 2 carried from 27 making 18 into 20, then 20 carried making 9 + 2 = 11 becomes 1 there may be some connections to draw between the digit sum property of numbers and the fact that 1234xxxx * 9 behaves in this way, may be i am just too dumb to figure that out. |
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Lei You
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Mar-25-03, 03:40 PM (EST) |
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5. "RE: 1 + 11 + 111"
In response to message #2
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Thanks steve, yes, i started out with a very same method, then, once the pattern started to break (7901012) btw the 7 and 9, I though something must have gone wrong, and I wasn't at all convinced that the number will consists of 2002 digits only (for the very last column has a carried number of 200, then 220, then 222, and when I started from the left most column, I thought the ending result may be 1234xxxx, then again, I am not too convinced, for the number of carries involved, its not until I actually ran the problem through the computer did I begin to realize that there really is a pattern to it I think this is the result because 1 1 1 1 1 1 if you add the series you get 1 in the first digit 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 then when ur up to 10 the 10 would carry and 9 becomes 0, and 8 becomes 9, then you have two 0 0s, this will allow you to do plenty of carries? namely, the next 1? or should I say that, when the carry is 222, and the number is 1998 we obtain the 0 (last digit in pattern) the next number 1997 222 results in a 9, but it intialiates a new carry number 221, which will decrease the next digit by 2 (because the carry number is now 1 less, and the number of 1s in that column is also 1 less) then the next few numbers don't change the carry number, until, 89 came along, now the same pattern initiates again, until the 9th number in the sequence comes along, and decreases the carry number by 1 the same pattern repeats, and the carry number eventually reaches 0, and in each sequence, there is a 1, thus we have 222 1s 2 1s we had before. Yeh, i guess this way, i can get around without thinking about the number of digits in the sum. am I somewhat right? |
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Jack Wert
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Mar-25-03, 10:36 PM (EST) |
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9. "RE: 1 + 11 + 111"
In response to message #8
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Thank you, Lei You, for the re-statement of the problem - and the discussion of the calculator situation. It is still fascinating that the string is complete except for the number 8, and has such interesting properties, as further reviewed by both you and Steve Schaefer That is why I like this forum so much. Many interesting things turn up. Jack |
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