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Subject: "0/0"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences The CTK Exchange Early math Topic #50
Reading Topic #50
someguy
guest
Nov-16-03, 07:02 PM (EST)
 
"0/0"
 
   does 0/0 equal anything? some people said it equals some constant :S


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
0/0 someguy Nov-16-03 TOP
  RE: 0/0 alexb Nov-16-03 1
     RE: 0/0 someguy2 Nov-18-03 2
         RE: 0/0 Vladimir Nov-19-03 3
         RE: 0/0 RicBrad Nov-19-03 4
         RE: 0/0 flash Dec-16-03 5
  RE: 0/0 Aly Dec-21-03 6

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alexb
Charter Member
1150 posts
Nov-16-03, 09:15 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: 0/0"
In response to message #0
 
   Check this

https://www.cut-the-knot.org/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID4/449.shtml


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someguy2
guest
Nov-18-03, 09:51 PM (EST)
 
2. "RE: 0/0"
In response to message #1
 
   already read that, it's 0 to the power of 0....im asking what's 0 over 0 ... some ppl say it's some constants, plz reply if u have the answer


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Vladimir
Member since Jun-22-03
Nov-19-03, 09:38 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: 0/0"
In response to message #2
 
   Suppose you have the following 3 different quadratic polynomials:

A(x) = x2 - 3x + 2
B(x) = x2 - 4x + 3
C(x) = x2 - 5x + 4

For x = 1, the value of all 3 of these polynomials is 0:

A(1) = B(1) = C(1) = 0

You can also calculate values of their ratios for x ¹ 1, say:

Q(x) = B(x)/A(x) = (x2 - 4x + 3)/(x2 - 3x + 2)
R(x) = C(x)/A(x) = (x2 - 5x + 4)/(x2 - 3x + 2)

If 0/0 was equal to anything, it would be reasonable to expect that

Q(1) = B(1)/A(1) = 0/0
R(1) = C(1)/A(1) = 0/0

It would be also reasonable to expect that if x ¹ 1 but it is very very close to 1 (we say x is approaching 1, x ® 1), values of the above ratios would be approaching 0/0, Q(x) ® 0/0 and also R(x) ® 0/0. But the approached values (we call them limits) are easy to calculate:

A(x) = (x - 1)·(x - 2)
B(x) = (x - 1)·(x - 3)
C(x) = (x - 1)·(x - 4)

Q(x) = B(x)/A(x) = (x - 1)·(x - 3)/(x - 1)/(x - 2)
R(x) = C(x)/A(x) = (x - 1)·(x - 4)/(x - 1)/(x - 2)

If x ¹ 1 but it is very very close to 1, then x - 1 ¹ 0 and we can reduce the fractions to

Q(x) = (x - 3)/(x - 2)
R(x) = (x - 4)/(x - 2)

Now we have no problems with x approaching 1:

when x ® 1, Q(x) ® (1 - 3)/(1 - 2) = (-2)/(-1) = 2
when x ® 1, R(x) ® (1 - 4)/(1 - 2) = (-3)/(-1) = 3

Therefore, if 0/0 was equal to anything, it would be reasonable to expect that it equals 0/0 = Q(1) = 2 and also 0/0 = R(1) = 3. By selecting appropriate quadratic polynomials to start with, it would be equally reasonable to expect that 0/0 equals to any number whatsoever. Moreover, all these numbers would have to be equal not only to 0/0, but also to each other. That would be the end of arithmetic. For such reasons, we say that 0/0 is undefined, i.e., it does not equal to any number.


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RicBrad
Member since Nov-16-01
Nov-19-03, 09:38 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: 0/0"
In response to message #2
 
   >what's 0 over 0 ... some ppl say it's some constants, plz
>reply if u have the answer

0/0 must be undefined - if we allow it to be any constant, a contradiction arises. This is different from 0^0, which can be defined to be 1 for convenience without giving a contradiction.

Let's say we allowed 0/0 to be some constant "a".

0/0 = a

so

0 = a * 0

but for any b,

0 = b * 0

then

b = 0/0

hence for any b, a = b

If we defined 0/0 = 1, we would be able to work out that 1 = 2.


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flash
guest
Dec-16-03, 09:50 PM (EST)
 
5. "RE: 0/0"
In response to message #2
 
   We would say 0/0 as indeterminate


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Aly
guest
Dec-21-03, 11:33 AM (EST)
 
6. "RE: 0/0"
In response to message #0
 
   If 0/0 were equal to some number b then:
0/0 = b would yield 0 = b*0 but the latter is true for any number
That is why we say that 0/0 is undertermined.


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