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Subject: "Coxeter Introduction to Geometry"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences The CTK Exchange College math Topic #692
Reading Topic #692
WiZaRd
Member since Jul-7-08
Aug-23-08, 06:52 AM (EST)
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"Coxeter Introduction to Geometry"
 
   Hello!

I've started to read "Coxeter - Introduction to Geometry" and I've encoutered a problem at page 5 (link to the book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0471504580/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link ), where Coxeter tells about the principle of superposition. Coxeter says that this principle is nowdays replaced with an axiom: the axiom of the rigidity of a triangle with a tail, numerated with 1.26.

Coxeter says that this axiom can be used to extend the notion of congruence to more complex figures than line segments, such as angles: in fact, previously he tells about congruence only for line segment (line 10-11-12).

Coxeter also says that this axiom can be used to prove the first law of congrunce for triangle (i.e., Euclid I.4), avoiding to use the principle of superposition (line 26).

Well... my questions are:
1) how can we define the congruence for angles using 1.26?
2) how can we prove Euclid I.4 using 1.26?
3) statement 1.26 can be proved using the third and first law of congruence for triangle: despite this possibility, it is really an axiom?

Thanks.

P.S.
I'm very sorry for my very bad english!


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alexb
Charter Member
2274 posts
Aug-23-08, 09:15 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Coxeter Introduction to Geometry"
In response to message #0
 
   >I've started to read "Coxeter - Introduction to Geometry"
>and I've encoutered a problem at page 5 (link to the book:
>https://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0471504580/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link
>), where Coxeter tells about the principle of
>superposition
. Coxeter says that this principle is
>nowdays replaced with an axiom: the axiom of the rigidity
>of a triangle with a tail
, numerated with 1.26.

Saying "nowadays" implies a generality of sorts as if everyone universally is using Coxeter's I.26. I, for one, am unaware of any source, besides, Introduction to Geometry where I.26 is mentioned explicitly. It is certainly not among Hilbert's axioms.

>Coxeter says that this axiom can be used to extend the
>notion of congruence to more complex figures than line
>segments, such as angles: in fact, previously he tells about
>congruence only for line segment (line 10-11-12).

We may always try to guess what he meant.

>Coxeter also says that this axiom can be used to prove the
>first law of congrunce for triangle (i.e., Euclid
>I.4), avoiding to use the principle of superposition (line
>26).

This may be a good exercise.

>Well... my questions are:
>1) how can we define the congruence for angles using 1.26?

Assuming that angles are defined as a pair of rays (AU, AV) with a common point A, I can imagine the following definition (but my guess may be as good as yours):

(AU, AV) = (A'U', A'V') iff, for any B on AU, C on AV, B' on A'U', C' on A'V', AB = A'B' & AC = A'C' implies B'C'.

I propose that I.26 is used to prove that the definition of the angle congruence does not depend on a particular choice of B, C, B', C'.

>2) how can we prove Euclid I.4 using 1.26?

This is rather a direct consequence of the definition I just gave.

>3) statement 1.26 can be proved using the third and first
>law of congruence for triangle: despite this possibility, it
>is really an axiom?

I am sorry to say that this question does not make sense. It does not make sense to talk of a single axiom, but rather of a system of axioms. When one comes to putting together such an axiomatic system, his/hers choices are governed by considerations of consistency, frugality, esthetics, etc. In principle, math statements may be interchangeable. A theorem in an axiomatic system may be included as an axiom in another. In the latter, some or all axioms of the former will become theorems.


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WiZaRd
Member since Jul-7-08
Aug-30-08, 06:37 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Coxeter Introduction to Geometry"
In response to message #1
 
   >Assuming that angles are defined as a pair of rays (AU, AV)
>with a common point A, I can imagine the following
>definition (but my guess may be as good as yours):
>
>(AU, AV) = (A'U', A'V') iff, for any B on AU, C on AV, B' on
>A'U', C' on A'V', AB = A'B' & AC = A'C' implies B'C'.
>
>I propose that I.26 is used to prove that the definition of
>the angle congruence does not depend on a particular choice
>of B, C, B', C'.

Can you explain me how to use 1.26 to show that the definition of the angle congruence does not depend on a particular choice of B, C, B ', C'?

P.S.
Thanks for your help. I'm sorry for my absence, but I have not had time to respond.


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alexb
Charter Member
2274 posts
Aug-30-08, 11:05 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Coxeter Introduction to Geometry"
In response to message #2
 
   Let (AU, AV) and (A'U', A'V') be two angles, with points B, C, B', C' such that AB = A'B', AC = A'C' and BC = B'C'. Assume there are points X on AU, Y on AV, X' on A'U', Y' on A'V' such that AX = A'X' and AY = A'Y'. We want to show that XY = X'Y'.

Apply Coxeter's I.26 twice. First, get XC = X'C', then XY = X'Y'.


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WiZaRd
Member since Jul-7-08
Sep-01-08, 09:12 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Coxeter Introduction to Geometry"
In response to message #3
 
   OK. You've been very clear and gentle. Thank you very much!


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Pierre Charland
Member since Dec-22-05
Sep-01-08, 09:12 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Coxeter Introduction to Geometry"
In response to message #0
 
   Coxeter doesn't actually states Euclid's principle of superposition.
I think it is: "Things which coincide are equal."

This is also discussed in:
Peter R. Cromwell, Polyhedra, p.219
(Cambridge University Press, 1997)

AlphaChapMtl


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