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Subject: "Would someone comment on the soundness of this statement?"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences The CTK Exchange High school Topic #399
Reading Topic #399
jmolokach
Member since Aug-17-10
Sep-29-10, 03:30 PM (EST)
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"Would someone comment on the soundness of this statement?"
 
   I have tried to simplify the teaching of relationships of inverse functions' derivatives by using a term I created called "counterpoints." So if f and g are inverse functions, their "counterpoints" are (x,y) and (y,x) and the derivatives (or slopes) at these respective points are reciprocals.

I hope I did not oversimplify things, but it'seems to me a nice alternative to the standard definition given in textbooks.

molokach


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Would someone? alexbadmin Sep-29-10 1
     RE: Would someone? jmolokach Sep-29-10 2
         RE: Would someone? alexbadmin Sep-29-10 3
             RE: Would someone? jmolokach Sep-29-10 4
                 RE: Would someone? alexbadmin Sep-29-10 5
                     RE: Would someone? jmolokach Sep-29-10 6
                         RE: Would someone? alexbadmin Sep-29-10 7
                             RE: Would someone? jmolokach Sep-30-10 8
                                 RE: Would someone? alexbadmin Sep-30-10 9

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alexbadmin
Charter Member
2629 posts
Sep-29-10, 03:38 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Would someone?"
In response to message #0
 
   And what is the standard definition?


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jmolokach
Member since Aug-17-10
Sep-29-10, 08:53 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Would someone?"
In response to message #1
 
   here is a page that contains the theorem in the form most texts use...

https://oregonstate.edu/instruct/mth251/cq/Stage6/Lesson/inverseDeriv.html

molokach


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alexbadmin
Charter Member
2629 posts
Sep-29-10, 09:03 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Would someone?"
In response to message #2
 
   A theorem is not a definition.

A theorem is something that needs to be proved.
A definition is something that captures a useful concept.

Your counterpoints definition may be useful in grasping or memorizing both the idea behind the relation between the two derivatives and the procedure for computing one of them in terms of the other. Still, it does not replace the theorem. I, therefore, do not see to which it is an alternative.


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jmolokach
Member since Aug-17-10
Sep-29-10, 09:40 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Would someone?"
In response to message #3
 
   "A theorem is not a definition.
A theorem is something that needs to be proved.
A definition is something that captures a useful concept."

Yes, I realized this after posting. I wrongly inserted the word definition in the post when I meant to say theorem.

"Your counterpoints definition may be useful in grasping or memorizing both the idea behind the relation between the two derivatives and the procedure for computing one of them in terms of the other. Still, it does not replace the theorem. I, therefore, do not see to which it is an alternative."

I suppose what I am asking is if my explanation is sufficient to show the relationship without mentioning the form:

(d/dx) = 1 / <(d/dx)[f^(-1)'(x)>]

...which for me is hard enough to type, let alone explain to high school students...

It was not my intention to "rewrite" the theorem, only to give some clarity to the idea presented in the theorem without having to mention the rather involved notation....

so not an alternative to the theorem itself, but rather an alternative way to present the theorem....

I hope I am making sense...

molokach


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alexbadmin
Charter Member
2629 posts
Sep-29-10, 09:52 PM (EST)
Click to EMail alexb Click to send private message to alexb Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
5. "RE: Would someone?"
In response to message #4
 
   The term "counterpoints" is may be more convenient than the phrase "points symmetric in the diagonal", yes.

Still, if the idea is that, by the end of the day, the students know how to compute the derivative of the inverse function, then sometine around the lunch you'll have to produce the formula. You may use the chain rule to derive the formula without any resort to coordinates.

But whatever works for you - just do it. I am always apprehensive of general preferences. I do not believe there is always the best approach that works for all students and for all teachers.


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jmolokach
Member since Aug-17-10
Sep-29-10, 10:08 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Would someone?"
In response to message #5
 
   OK, thanks. My formula then is this...

If f and g are inverse functions, then f having the point (x,y) means that g has the point (y,x). Since the tangents as well as the functions are reflected over the line y = x,

f'(x) = 1 / g'(y)

molokach


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alexbadmin
Charter Member
2629 posts
Sep-29-10, 11:28 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Would someone?"
In response to message #6
 
   That's good.

Perhaps, as an extra contrivance, one may distinguish between "variable" x and y and "constant" x0 and y0. The reason is that in y = x and f'(x) = 1 / g'(y), x and y play different roles. In

f'(x) = 1 / g'(y)

y is a value for x, so that I'd rather write

f'(x0) = 1 / g'(y0).


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jmolokach
Member since Aug-17-10
Sep-30-10, 07:33 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Would someone?"
In response to message #7
 
   good call... I didn't catch that but that is important... I suppose even (x1,y1) would work... Thanks so much!

molokach


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alexbadmin
Charter Member
2629 posts
Sep-30-10, 07:35 AM (EST)
Click to EMail alexb Click to send private message to alexb Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
9. "RE: Would someone?"
In response to message #8
 
   >I suppose even (x1,y1) would work...

It may work even better.


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