CTK Exchange
CTK Wiki Math
Front Page
Movie shortcuts
Personal info
Awards
Terms of use
Privacy Policy

Interactive Activities

Cut The Knot!
MSET99 Talk
Games & Puzzles
Arithmetic/Algebra
Geometry
Probability
Eye Opener
Analog Gadgets
Inventor's Paradox
Did you know?...
Proofs
Math as Language
Things Impossible
My Logo
Math Poll
Other Math sit's
Guest book
News sit's

Recommend this site

Manifesto: what CTK is about Search CTK Buying a book is a commitment to learning Table of content Products to download and subscription Things you can find on CTK Chronology of updates Email to Cut The Knot Recommend this page

CTK Exchange

Subject: "sequences"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy     Email this topic to a friend    
Conferences The CTK Exchange Middle school Topic #83
Reading Topic #83
The Teacher
guest
Jun-20-03, 05:08 PM (EST)
 
"sequences"
 
   what is the next 10 numbers in each sequences.
1,2,2,4,2
3,1,4,1,5

this should be easy


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: sequences Vladimir Jul-01-03 1
  RE: sequences Vladimir Sep-17-03 2
     RE: sequences alexbadmin Sep-18-03 3
         RE: sequences Vladimir Sep-18-03 4
             RE: sequences Maths-addict Dec-31-07 5
             RE: sequences Sunny Nov-21-10 6
                 RE: sequences alexbadmin Nov-21-10 7

Conferences | Forums | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Vladimir
Member since Jun-22-03
Jul-01-03, 09:35 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Vladimir Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: sequences"
In response to message #0
 
   The above sequences have no definite continuation - it could be anything. Even assuming that you want to guess some rules for the next 10 numbers, the information is not sufficient to establish a definite pattern. For example, the first sequence could continue

1, 2, 2, 4, 2, 6, 2, 8, 9, 10, 2, 12, 2, 14, 15, ...

the rule being if n is prime, a(n) = 2, otherwise a(n) = n. Or it could be the first five digits of some irrational number (for example, the fifth root of 11/4). The second sequence could continue

3, 1, 4, 1, 5, 1, 6, 1, 7, 1, 8, 1, 9, 1, 10, ...

The rule beinng if n is odd a(n) = 3+(n-1)/2, otherwise a(n) = 1. Or it could be the first five digits of pi

3.1415926535897932384626433832795

(see Windows calculator). Be serious, don't tease people.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Vladimir
Member since Jun-22-03
Sep-17-03, 11:44 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Vladimir Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: sequences"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-03 AT 07:02 PM (EST)
 
I just realized that the 1st sequence should be the differences between successive primes:

1 = 3 - 2
2 = 5 - 3
2 = 7 - 5
4 = 11 - 7
2 = 13 - 11

continues as

4 = 17 - 13
2 = 19 - 17
4 = 23 - 19
6 = 29 - 23
2 = 31 - 29
6 = 37 - 31
4 = 41 - 37
2 = 43 - 41
4 = 47 - 43
6 = 53 - 47
6 = 59 - 53
2 = 61 - 59

etc.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
alexbadmin
Charter Member
2661 posts
Sep-18-03, 00:02 AM (EST)
Click to EMail alexb Click to send private message to alexb Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: sequences"
In response to message #2
 
   The other day you were right at least as much.

There's a curious article by Roger Penrose in Puzzler's Tribute. Find the missing number in the sequence

7, 9, 12, ?, 24, 36, 56, 90

Answer: 24·ln(2)!

Why? Evaluate the formula f(n) = 24(2n - 1)/n for n = -3, -2, -1, 1, 2, 3, 4. The value f(0) is missing, but could be found via the l'Hôpital rule!


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Vladimir
Member since Jun-22-03
Sep-18-03, 05:59 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Vladimir Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: sequences"
In response to message #3
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-03 AT 10:31 PM (EST)
 
How do you figure a solution to this kind of thing? What does the article suggest? Anything I try now looks like playing smart after the fact.

7 = 7
9 = 3·3
12 = 3·2·2
???
24 = 2·2·2·3
36 = 2·2·3·3
56 = 2·2·2·7
90 = 2·3·3·5

Note that multiplying the 4 numbers below the unknown number by 1, 2, 3, 4 makes all of them multiples of 3 and 8:

24·1 = 2·2·2·3
36·2 = 2·2·2·3·3
56·3 = 2·2·2·3·7
90·4 = 2·2·2·3·3·5

24·1 = 24·1
36·2 = 24·3
56·3 = 24·7
90·4 = 24·15

Numbers 1, 3, 7, 15 have the suspicious look of powers of 2 decreased by 1

24·1 = 24·(2 - 1)
36·2 = 24·(4 - 1)
56·3 = 24·(8 - 1)
90·4 = 24·(16 - 1)

24 = 24·(2 - 1)/1
36 = 24·(4 - 1)/2
56 = 24·(8 - 1)/3
90 = 24·(16 - 1)/4

Does the pattern hold for the numbers above the unknown number?

12 = 24·(1/2 - 1)/(-1)
9 = 24·(1/4 - 1)/(-2)
7 = 24·(1/8 - 1)/(-3)

Yes it does.

an = 24·(2n-3 - 1)/(n - 3), n ¹ 3

Extend the range of function an to real numbers x ¹ 3 and calculate the limit for x ® 3 using the l'Hospital rule

a(x) = 24·(2x-3 - 1)/(x - 3)

lim a(x) = 24·lim{(2x-3 - 1)/(x - 3)} = 24·lim {(2x-3 - 1)} / lim (x - 3) =
= 24·lim {ln(2)·2x-3} / lim 1 = 24·ln(2) » 16.6355

If I really needed the missing number, I would go about it differently. First, I would plot the sequence in Excel. This is not playing smart after the fact, I did that for the bizarre sequence 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 31, 37, 43, 67, ... as well. Our sequence 7, 9, 12, ?, 24, 36, 56, 90 looks like a smooth function of natural numbers and I would interpolate using a natural spline.

Splines (particulary natural splines) are very useful and for those not familiar with splines I present a few details. A spline Sm(x) of the m-th order with connection points x1 < x2 < ... < xn is a function given in each interval (-¥, x1), (x1, x2), ..., (xn, ¥) by a polynomial of at most m-th degree and the derivatives of Sm are continuous up to the (m - 1)-th order. A spline of the m-th order can be expressed as

Sm(x) = Pm(x) + Sni=1 ci(x - xi)+m

where Pm(x) is a polynomial of at most m-th degree and the ()+ operator means "the positive part of". For a given table f(x1), f(x2), ..., f(xn) of function values, the general spline is not unique, which is unpleasant. Uniqueness is guaranteed for natural splines. A natural spline of the (2k + 1)-th order (only odd order natural splines do exist) is a spline that can be expressed as

N2k+1(x) = Pk(x) + Sni=1 ci(x - xi)+2k+1

where Pk(x) is a polynomial of at most k-th degree. To get the k + 1 coefficients of the polynomial Pk(x) and the n coefficients c1, c2, ... cn for a given table f(x1), f(x2), ..., f(xn) of function values, we have n linear equations

N2k+1(xi) = f(xi), i = 1, 2, ..., n

and k + 1 linear equations

Sni=1 cip = 0, p = 0, 1, ..., k

The last k + 1 equations result from limiting the dergee of the polynomial P2k+1(x) for a general odd order spline to the polynomial Pk(x) for the natural spline.

A natural spline of the first order for a given table of function values is a piecewise linear function inside the table that turns to constants outside the table. Which is the "natural" thing to do. Natural splines of higher orders are a generalization of this concept. Since a spline is a piecewise polynomial function, its integral can be calculated directly. Starting with the 3-rd order, splines have continuous first and second derivatives, which means that common methods of successive approximations can be used to find their roots and extrema.

To find the natural spline of the 3-rd order for the sequence 7, 9, 12, ?, 24, 36, 56, 90 we form a 9´9 matrix (n = 7, k = 1, n + k + 1 = 9) for the above 9 linear equations:


½ 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0½ ½c1½ ½ 7½
½ 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1½ ½c2½ ½ 9½
½ 8 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 2½ ½c3½ ½12½
½ 64 27 8 0 0 0 0 1 4½ ½c4½ ½24½
½ 125 64 27 1 0 0 0 1 5½ ½c5½ = ½36½
½ 216 125 64 8 1 0 0 1 6½ ½c6½ ½56½
½ 343 216 125 27 8 1 0 1 7½ ½c7½ ½90½
½ 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0½ ½a0½ ½ 0½
½ 0 1 2 4 5 6 7 0 0½ ½a1½ ½ 0½

Calculating the inverse matrix (using the Excel MINVERSE array function) and multiplying it by the right side column, we get the 7 coeeficients c1, c2, ..., c7 of the 3-rd order natural spline N3(x) and the 2 coefficients a0, a1 of the polynomial P1(x). Calculating the value of the natural spline for x = 3:

N3(3) » 16.5363

which is pretty close to 24·ln(2) » 16.6355 (0.60% less). Using a natural spline of the 5-th order would yield a slightly better result - 16.5684 (0.40% less than 24·ln(2)). The plots show how well a 3-rd order natural spline approximates a smooth function given by a table of a few function values inside the table.

Blue lines represent the function a(x) = 24·(2x-3 - 1)/(x - 3) and the red lines the 3-rd order natural spline N3(x) through the 7 given points.

Regards, Vladimir

Attachments
https://www.cut-the-knot.org/htdocs/dcforum/User_files/3f6e6bd776fa8932.gif

  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Maths-addict
guest
Dec-31-07, 11:30 AM (EST)
 
5. "RE: sequences"
In response to message #4
 
   Hey, you seems smart at numerical sequences... !

By any chance, do you remember how you solved the "bizarre sequence" 1,2,4,8,16,31,37,43,67 ????

You would be of a great help !!!

Thanks in advance !!!


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Sunny
guest
Nov-21-10, 06:39 AM (EST)
 
6. "RE: sequences"
In response to message #4
 
   I got the answer to the bizarre sequence 1,2,4,8,16,31,37,43,67, ?


The answer I got is 38. Is it correct? I'm waiting for your reply.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
alexbadmin
Charter Member
2661 posts
Nov-21-10, 06:45 AM (EST)
Click to EMail alexb Click to send private message to alexb Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
7. "RE: sequences"
In response to message #6
 
   As good as any other, unless you have a neat argument to justify your response.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Conferences | Forums | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

You may be curious to have a look at the old CTK Exchange archive.
Please do not post there.

Copyright © 1996-2018 Alexander Bogomolny

Search:
Keywords:

Google
Web CTK