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martin gran

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Sep-13-02, 01:06 AM (EST) |
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"drawing puzzle"
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My third grade math teacher gave us a drawing puzzle I'm still trying to solve thirty odd years later. Now my daughter's trying to figure it out and I don't want her wasting as many hours on this as I did. The first excercise is to draw something that looks like a house with an "X" in the bottom square without lifting the pen or double-drawing a line. That's easy enough. The next step is to add the triangular roof-like thing on each of the 4 sides of the box with the "X" in it. That I can't seem to do (within the rules above). Nor can I figure out why it's impossible. Is this a popular puzzle? Can anyone out there help me solve it before my daughter throws away the best years of her life trying to solve it? Thanks. martinrgran@earthlink.net |
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alexb
Charter Member
2221 posts |
Sep-14-02, 02:28 AM (EST) |
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1. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #0
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>My third grade math teacher gave us a drawing puzzle I'm >still trying to solve thirty odd years later. Now my >daughter's trying to figure it out and I don't want her >wasting as many hours on this as I did. May she be more gifted? May she enjoy solving problems or this puzzle in particular? May it be useful to sometimes use one's brain? > >The first excercise is to draw something that looks like a >house with an "X" in the bottom square without lifting the >pen or double-drawing a line. That's easy enough. > >The next step is to add the triangular roof-like thing on >each of the 4 sides of the box with the "X" in it. That I >can't seem to do (within the rules above). Nor can I figure >out why it's impossible. Search the Web or this site for "Euler path" or "Unicursal Drawings". >Is this a popular puzzle? Very much so. >Can anyone out there help me >solve it before my daughter throws away the best years of >her life trying to solve it? May she waste the best years of her life without trying to solve it?
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Soroban
Member since Sep-10-02
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Sep-18-02, 05:36 PM (EST) |
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3. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #1
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>>Can anyone out there help me >>solve it before my daughter throws away the best years of >>her life trying to solve it? > >May she waste the best years of her life without trying to >solve it? I agree, Alex ~ yet sending her on a years-long futile search (for a solution for a problem known to have no solution) could be considered a "waste". I believe it was the Star Trek episode "Wolf in the Fold" in which Spock ordered the possessed computer to calculate the exact value of pi ~ thus occupying the computer so thoroughly that our heroes could save the crew, the Enterprise, the United Federation of Planets, and Life As We Know It. ~~~~~~~~~~ An "even" vertex is one which has an even number of line segments emanting from it. The center of the X has 4 segments; it is even. The peak of a "roof" has 2 segments; it is even. Elementary graph theory states: a figure is "traversable" if (1) all vertices are even, or (2) there are no more than two odd vertices. Consider: When you pass through a point, you have made it an even vertex ~ one path in, one path out. A vertex is odd if (1) you start at that vertex, or (2) you end at that vertex. (It may take some sketching to understand these statements.) If there is one odd vertex, we must start at that vertex. And the rest of the figure (all even) can be traversed. If there are two odd vertices, we must start at one of them and end at the other. With more than two odd vertices, the traversing is impossible. (And the given problem has four odd vertices.) (Naturally, someone is bound to suggest folding the paper, or drawing the figure on a torus, etc. ~ but I remind you, this problem was given a child.) |
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alexb
Charter Member
2221 posts |
Sep-18-02, 05:49 PM (EST) |
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4. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #3
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-02 AT 05:50 PM (EST) >I agree, Alex ~ yet sending her on a years-long futile >search (for a solution for a problem known to >have no solution) could be considered a "waste".
- Is suggesting to search for "Euler path" at my site implies "sending her on a years-long futile search"? Have you tried?
- The problem has a solution, albeit negative, as you demonstrate below.
>An "even" vertex is one which has an even number of line >segments emanting from it. >The center of the X has 4 segments; it is even. >The peak of a "roof" has 2 segments; it is even. > >Elementary graph theory states: a figure is "traversable" if >(1) all vertices are even, or >(2) there are no more than two odd vertices. Is making a reference any worse than typing the same thing anew? A reference to a general approach gives one a fighting chance to use one's brain. What goal is achieved by giving the solution away? |
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Soroban
Member since Sep-10-02
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Sep-19-02, 05:01 AM (EST) |
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5. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #4
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>Is suggesting to search for "Euler path" at my site >implies "sending her on a years-long futile search"? Have >you tried? I repeat: Martin was given this problem at about age 8; his daughter may be approximately the same age. I have no objection to suggesting a search for "Euler path", any more than recommending an introductory Topology text. >Is making a reference any worse than typing the same thing >anew? A reference to a general approach gives one a fighting >chance to use one's brain. What goal is achieved by giving >the solution away? I seem to have angered you, Alex - certainly not my intention. I gave the solution to Martin to do as he wishes. If he wants his daughter to use her brain, he can withold the truth. If he truly feels he wasted valuable time in a futile endeavor, he should be given the opportunity to decide for his daughter. But I'll practice more descretion in future positings - promise! |
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kfom

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Aug-24-06, 07:33 PM (EST) |
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11. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #9
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>So can any of you morons simply answer "yes" or "no" to the >problem and provide a suitable link to a webpage. Or are you >just going to carry on quoting each other? Well, frustrated, I'll save you the trouble of looking through the _whole_entire_thread_(who knows how long that might take)by quoting select tidbits of info. Soroban wrote: >With more than two odd vertices, the traversing is impossible. >(And the given problem has four odd vertices.) Alex B. wrote: >Search the Web or this site for "Euler path" or "Unicursal Drawings." I write: we're still quoting each other. |
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darya

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May-09-08, 06:53 PM (EST) |
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31. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #9
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>So can any of you morons simply answer "yes" or "no" to the >problem and provide a suitable link to a webpage. Or are you >just going to carry on quoting each other? this made me laugh, thanks haha
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krysta

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Jan-29-08, 05:15 PM (EST) |
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28. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #7
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and what about half circles on all sides of the box? i know it isnt impossible because ive watched other people figure it out and i have done it but i dont remember..... im not answering your question im just adding on to it. |
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Rod H

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Aug-29-06, 07:33 PM (EST) |
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12. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #3
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>Elementary graph theory states: a figure is "traversable" if >(1) all vertices are even, or >(2) there are no more than two odd vertices. > >Consider: When you pass through a point, you have made it an >even vertex ~ one path in, one path out. A vertex is odd if >(1) you start at that vertex, or (2) you end at that vertex. >(It may take some sketching to understand these statements.) Seems clear so far. Like laying out a string, it has no odd vertices if the ends are tied together. >If there is one odd vertex, we must start at that vertex. >And the rest of the figure (all even) can be traversed. Huh? Just curious, how is one odd vertex possible? I can't seem to visualize it. |
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krysta

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Jan-29-08, 06:13 PM (EST) |
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29. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #1
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>>My third grade math teacher gave us a drawing puzzle I'm >>still trying to solve thirty odd years later. Now my >>daughter's trying to figure it out and I don't want her >>wasting as many hours on this as I did. > > > >> >>The first excercise is to draw something that looks like a >>house with an "X" in the bottom square without lifting the >>pen or double-drawing a line. That's easy enough. >> >>The next step is to add the triangular roof-like thing on >>each of the 4 sides of the box with the "X" in it. That I >>can't seem to do (within the rules above). Nor can I figure >>out why it's impossible. > > > >>Is this a popular puzzle? > > > >>Can anyone out there help me >>solve it before my daughter throws away the best years of >>her life trying to solve it? > its actually really simple.. c _ b draw this | point a (start at the bottom) d then make the top "roof" thing /\e then go down diagonally to the bottom left d /\ c_/__\_1b 2e / | / | a f
then go across horizontally to your beginning point (the bottom right corner) you should have this. d /\ c _/__\_ / |1b& 2e / | _/___|point 1a 2g f sry if the letters confuse you... ignore them if they do..
the numbers mean which point they are first. kay so then you go up diagonally to the top left corner. d /\ 1c 2h/__\ \/ |1b& 2e /\ | _/__\| f point 1a 2g then finish it off by drawing a line downwards ta daaa
d /\ 1c.2h /__\ | \/ |1b.2e | /\ | |/__\| 1f.2i point 1a.2g and sorry to you very smart talking people if i did not use an adequate supply of mind challenging terms that the average person cannot comprehend |
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lb

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Sep-28-06, 04:19 PM (EST) |
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13. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #0
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I have solved your puzzle. Line 1 is leading up to the top left corner of the square, part of the X. Line 2 is the begining part of the triangle leading up to the triangles point. Line 3 is coming back down from the point of the triangle. Line 4 is the right side of the square. Line 5 is the bottom of the square. Line 6 is the left side of the square. Line 7is te top of the square and the base of the triangle. Line 8 is the last piece of the X leading to the bottom left corner of the square, finishing the shape. - LB |
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loyalsarah

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Mar-15-07, 10:27 PM (EST) |
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14. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #13
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your wrong i have tried to follow your explanation and your wrong it is not posible i have looked it up on many sites unless you fold over the paper it is imposible in order to do it you woud have to draw an x inside the square first and that is impossible |
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dismal

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Apr-30-07, 06:11 AM (EST) |
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15. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #14
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maybe i'm a genius but follow the directions as follows make a line like _ moving from right to left then make the line / moving from bottom to top then make the line - from right to left, this yields the shape z from the top of the z where your pencil should be draw ^ across the top of z where those 2 points intersect draw | from top to bottom (or just simply down) now draw \ through the center of your figure from right to left now draw | from top to bottom now send me money |
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Davaal

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May-29-07, 09:02 AM (EST) |
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19. "RE: drawing puzzle"
In response to message #16
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Did you ever get an answer to this drawing problem. My friend showed me this one yesterday and told me he knew the answer. He wont give it to me yet and wants me to figure it out. It is possible to do it but all the experts say it can't be done. |
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